Same age as you, grew up in suburban Southern California, Catholic father, Lutheran mother, all 5 of us kids went to public schools from k-12. No ethnic component to our faith practice. We went to church on Good Friday (not Mom though), usually just for the service where you venerate the cross 'Mass of Pre-Sanctified' I am learning from you. Sometimes Stations of the Cross and/or and I remember something called 'The Seven Last Words' also we did once or twice. Then we went to church on Easter of course. That's it. We didn't do anything special at home except of course observe abstinence and fast on Good Friday.
My grade school years were 1959 to 1967 and high school 1967 to 1971. All Catholic schools, and I never heard the word Triduum in all that time. Lent went from Ash Wednesday through Holy Saturday, omitting Sundays, which is indeed 40 days.
The town I lived in from 1955 to 1965 was made up primaries of engineers who had been transferred there by their employers. The Catholic Church was built by the parishioners there, and it was a mission parish until 1961. I don't remember if we had Holy Thursday Mass before then. We had Good Friday services, no Easter Vigil that I ever went to, and we went to Easter Mass after seeing our Easter candy. There was still a two or three hour fast before receiving Communion, so we had to wait until after that to eat it.
The biggest change in Holy Week came when the 1962, pre-Vatican II liturgical changes happened. The Passion was no longer read as the Gospel for the fifth Sunday of Lent and was moved to Palm Sunday. I remember the last time it was read on what was then called Passion Sunday, I walked out of church thinking what I was doing for Lent was so small in comparison with what Jesus had done for me, and I was much more serious about Lenten discipline those last two weeks.
And of course I looked forward to Palm Sunday with the short Gospel and the procession around the church grounds waving the palms. I would like to see those two things changed back to what they were.
Back in those days if one wanted to become Catholic one went to a local priest and he decided when one knew enough about the faith to be admitted. There was no special day where everyone who was joining for the year entered the Church. And no regular classes either.
You and I are roughly the same age. But I grew up in suburban New Jersey where despite all the VII changes, Catholic identity was still pretty strong and there were lots of us, of all ethnicities, including in the subgroup of emerging reactionaries/conservatives to which my family belonged. (We didn't call ourselves traditionalist in those days because those were the people who broke away with Archbishop LeFebvre.) By the early 70s my parents, my parents were church-hopping in order to avoid our local, progressive parish at least some of the time. For example, we went to Friday night stations of the cross at a different parish because it used the traditional Alphonosus Ligouri stations booklet rather than the "Every Man's Way of the Cross" which featured pictures of poor people for each station, rather than pictures of Jesus. (But I will note that whether liberal or conservative, the turnout for Stations in those days was phenomenal--church wasn't quite packed, but still very close to full.) But back to Holy Week. We went to mass Palm Sunday and each day of the Triduum. In our diocese, adoration after Holy Thursday mass went all night long and into the next day until it was time for the Good Friday service. (I wonder when that went away and adoration hours reduced only until 10pm or midnight?) My Dad would go back for adoration sometime late at night. My mom would send us kids during one of the morning hours on Good Friday equipped with rosaries and prayer books to help us get through the hour. During the day on Good Friday we were discouraged from riding our bikes or playing with friends on our street. We had to stay home and engage in quiet play. We returned to church (most years) in the afternoon for the service. I don't recall much about liturgical changes at that time--I think even our progressive parish didn't tinker much with the service. The veneration of the cross always stood out to me as a kid--after all it only happened once a year. We never went to Easter vigil as a family ( I think my Dad did once in a while). We'd go to a later morning mass on Easter after we'd found our baskets of candy. I didn't attend an Easter vigil ever until after I got married in 1980, so I know nothing about what that was like during the 70s.
Funny title! Everyone our age recognizes from whence it comes. Seems I recall classmates making up alternative JCS lyrics that were quite unfortunate. Wonder if that happened with old Latin hymns.
I never heard of the chrism mass let alone liturgy of presanctified until my 30s.
Moving to Columbus diocese from Cincy in 1985 probably was good since Cincy got ruined by poor leadership in the 70s and 80s.
Off-topic but I grew up at a parish called Sacred Heart. Totally normal church building until an eyesore rebuild in 1989. Conservative part of Ohio. How? Maybe in this anecdotal example something universally applicable?
Rupnik decorated many prominent churches around the world and commented on his “art” which reminds me of the stained glass at the new Sacred Heart.
I always think it’s sort of a fascinating and perplexing thing that a suburban parish in a relatively conservative part of the country would end up with a barn with windows that have no spiritual value. Did the parish council weigh in and simply accede to the wishes of the pastor? Was that “art” simply the fashion of the time and therefore there was an urge to be modern to draw more people? Or was it simply that pastor Fr W was childlike with a unique view of art?
The SHS website says: “The present church was completed in 1989, with modifications in the liturgical environment in 1993-94.” (Modifications greatly appreciated!)
Despite Fr Ws affinity for children, there was never a single accusation made concerning sexual abuse suggesting his was an honest innocence. Did he like the childish stained glass simply because he was childlike?
Interestingly the archbishop didn’t do his funeral as seems customary for priests. Our Columbus bishop, then a priest in Cincy diocese, gave the homily at his funeral and commented, “Fr W often said, ‘well, after Vatican 2 nobody knows what’s going on.’ ... “He had a great passion for children. In some ways he was a child.... A priest I know said, ‘Well I disagreed with him about everything but he was an exceptionally kind man.’”
So I think in the end it was simply due to pastor and co-pastor who had their way in designing a new church to their taste.
It was built a bit too early (1989) to be influenced by the anti-modernist church trend. In a sense the city, being 10 years behind the times at all times, was stuck in 1979. If the modernist era nationwide was about 1966 to 1978 (when Pope John Paul II became pope) then for my city the era was about 1976 to 1988. This also explains how I received a traditional Catholic education during my grade school years through age 13 in ’76.
The SHS church architect, a Mason, belongs to a modernist parish in Cincinnati which had Fr W as pastor post-Sacred Heart. (The funny thing is how hard it is to find photos online of modernist churches because no one seems to take pictures of them purposefully!)
In fairness to Brooks, the worst thing about Sacred Heart is likely the stained glass windows, and I have no idea who authorized them or chose them. Perhaps that was all Fr W.
Surprisingly, Brooks wrote a book, or had one written about him. An excerpt:
“As one blogger said, ‘Architecture is not a big business, rather a small-scale professional service.’ American architect Philip Johnson insisted, ‘All architects want to live beyond their deaths’ by having their work outlast them, and Brooks agreed. ‘That's exactly right,’ he said.
‘Money's okay, you've got to make a living,’ Brooks said, ‘but if you get in this profession because of money, you're not going to be successful at all. You're going to be very frustrated.’
Brooks wanted three projects in particular to be part of his enduring legacy:
Sacred Heart Church: Brooks called Sacred Heart "the most liturgically correct church in the [Cincinnati] archdiocese.". [me: hidden tabernacle)
The design implemented changes meant to help worshipers "take more of a part [in the service) as opposed to just listening," Brooks said. He put the choir "a little bit at an angle and did some funky stuff" that allowed them to be seen without becoming the focal point of the service.
My gradeschool years were 1971-1979, and I graduated high school in 1983. Both schools were Catholic.
As a family, we'd attend Palm Sunday, Holy Thursday Mass, Good Friday services (stations, veneration of the Cross, reception of reserved Holy Communion), and attend Easter morning Mass. For many of those years, I was an altar boy, so it was very likely I served at one or more of those Masses/services each year. I distinctly recall one Holy Thursday Mass, that the altar boys were among those whose feet were washed by the bishop (my childhood parish was the diocesan cathedral in Rochester NY -Sacred Heart cathedral). In 7th and 8th grade, I was in the boys choir, and we sang at the Easter Vigil those years.
Nowadays, I attend Good Friday services during Holy Week, and attend morning Mass on Easter Sunday. I haven't attended Holy Thursday in well over a couple decades.
Same age as you, grew up in suburban Southern California, Catholic father, Lutheran mother, all 5 of us kids went to public schools from k-12. No ethnic component to our faith practice. We went to church on Good Friday (not Mom though), usually just for the service where you venerate the cross 'Mass of Pre-Sanctified' I am learning from you. Sometimes Stations of the Cross and/or and I remember something called 'The Seven Last Words' also we did once or twice. Then we went to church on Easter of course. That's it. We didn't do anything special at home except of course observe abstinence and fast on Good Friday.
My grade school years were 1959 to 1967 and high school 1967 to 1971. All Catholic schools, and I never heard the word Triduum in all that time. Lent went from Ash Wednesday through Holy Saturday, omitting Sundays, which is indeed 40 days.
The town I lived in from 1955 to 1965 was made up primaries of engineers who had been transferred there by their employers. The Catholic Church was built by the parishioners there, and it was a mission parish until 1961. I don't remember if we had Holy Thursday Mass before then. We had Good Friday services, no Easter Vigil that I ever went to, and we went to Easter Mass after seeing our Easter candy. There was still a two or three hour fast before receiving Communion, so we had to wait until after that to eat it.
The biggest change in Holy Week came when the 1962, pre-Vatican II liturgical changes happened. The Passion was no longer read as the Gospel for the fifth Sunday of Lent and was moved to Palm Sunday. I remember the last time it was read on what was then called Passion Sunday, I walked out of church thinking what I was doing for Lent was so small in comparison with what Jesus had done for me, and I was much more serious about Lenten discipline those last two weeks.
And of course I looked forward to Palm Sunday with the short Gospel and the procession around the church grounds waving the palms. I would like to see those two things changed back to what they were.
Back in those days if one wanted to become Catholic one went to a local priest and he decided when one knew enough about the faith to be admitted. There was no special day where everyone who was joining for the year entered the Church. And no regular classes either.
You and I are roughly the same age. But I grew up in suburban New Jersey where despite all the VII changes, Catholic identity was still pretty strong and there were lots of us, of all ethnicities, including in the subgroup of emerging reactionaries/conservatives to which my family belonged. (We didn't call ourselves traditionalist in those days because those were the people who broke away with Archbishop LeFebvre.) By the early 70s my parents, my parents were church-hopping in order to avoid our local, progressive parish at least some of the time. For example, we went to Friday night stations of the cross at a different parish because it used the traditional Alphonosus Ligouri stations booklet rather than the "Every Man's Way of the Cross" which featured pictures of poor people for each station, rather than pictures of Jesus. (But I will note that whether liberal or conservative, the turnout for Stations in those days was phenomenal--church wasn't quite packed, but still very close to full.) But back to Holy Week. We went to mass Palm Sunday and each day of the Triduum. In our diocese, adoration after Holy Thursday mass went all night long and into the next day until it was time for the Good Friday service. (I wonder when that went away and adoration hours reduced only until 10pm or midnight?) My Dad would go back for adoration sometime late at night. My mom would send us kids during one of the morning hours on Good Friday equipped with rosaries and prayer books to help us get through the hour. During the day on Good Friday we were discouraged from riding our bikes or playing with friends on our street. We had to stay home and engage in quiet play. We returned to church (most years) in the afternoon for the service. I don't recall much about liturgical changes at that time--I think even our progressive parish didn't tinker much with the service. The veneration of the cross always stood out to me as a kid--after all it only happened once a year. We never went to Easter vigil as a family ( I think my Dad did once in a while). We'd go to a later morning mass on Easter after we'd found our baskets of candy. I didn't attend an Easter vigil ever until after I got married in 1980, so I know nothing about what that was like during the 70s.
Funny title! Everyone our age recognizes from whence it comes. Seems I recall classmates making up alternative JCS lyrics that were quite unfortunate. Wonder if that happened with old Latin hymns.
I never heard of the chrism mass let alone liturgy of presanctified until my 30s.
Moving to Columbus diocese from Cincy in 1985 probably was good since Cincy got ruined by poor leadership in the 70s and 80s.
Off-topic but I grew up at a parish called Sacred Heart. Totally normal church building until an eyesore rebuild in 1989. Conservative part of Ohio. How? Maybe in this anecdotal example something universally applicable?
Rupnik decorated many prominent churches around the world and commented on his “art” which reminds me of the stained glass at the new Sacred Heart.
I always think it’s sort of a fascinating and perplexing thing that a suburban parish in a relatively conservative part of the country would end up with a barn with windows that have no spiritual value. Did the parish council weigh in and simply accede to the wishes of the pastor? Was that “art” simply the fashion of the time and therefore there was an urge to be modern to draw more people? Or was it simply that pastor Fr W was childlike with a unique view of art?
The SHS website says: “The present church was completed in 1989, with modifications in the liturgical environment in 1993-94.” (Modifications greatly appreciated!)
Despite Fr Ws affinity for children, there was never a single accusation made concerning sexual abuse suggesting his was an honest innocence. Did he like the childish stained glass simply because he was childlike?
Interestingly the archbishop didn’t do his funeral as seems customary for priests. Our Columbus bishop, then a priest in Cincy diocese, gave the homily at his funeral and commented, “Fr W often said, ‘well, after Vatican 2 nobody knows what’s going on.’ ... “He had a great passion for children. In some ways he was a child.... A priest I know said, ‘Well I disagreed with him about everything but he was an exceptionally kind man.’”
So I think in the end it was simply due to pastor and co-pastor who had their way in designing a new church to their taste.
It was built a bit too early (1989) to be influenced by the anti-modernist church trend. In a sense the city, being 10 years behind the times at all times, was stuck in 1979. If the modernist era nationwide was about 1966 to 1978 (when Pope John Paul II became pope) then for my city the era was about 1976 to 1988. This also explains how I received a traditional Catholic education during my grade school years through age 13 in ’76.
The SHS church architect, a Mason, belongs to a modernist parish in Cincinnati which had Fr W as pastor post-Sacred Heart. (The funny thing is how hard it is to find photos online of modernist churches because no one seems to take pictures of them purposefully!)
In fairness to Brooks, the worst thing about Sacred Heart is likely the stained glass windows, and I have no idea who authorized them or chose them. Perhaps that was all Fr W.
Surprisingly, Brooks wrote a book, or had one written about him. An excerpt:
“As one blogger said, ‘Architecture is not a big business, rather a small-scale professional service.’ American architect Philip Johnson insisted, ‘All architects want to live beyond their deaths’ by having their work outlast them, and Brooks agreed. ‘That's exactly right,’ he said.
‘Money's okay, you've got to make a living,’ Brooks said, ‘but if you get in this profession because of money, you're not going to be successful at all. You're going to be very frustrated.’
Brooks wanted three projects in particular to be part of his enduring legacy:
Sacred Heart Church: Brooks called Sacred Heart "the most liturgically correct church in the [Cincinnati] archdiocese.". [me: hidden tabernacle)
The design implemented changes meant to help worshipers "take more of a part [in the service) as opposed to just listening," Brooks said. He put the choir "a little bit at an angle and did some funky stuff" that allowed them to be seen without becoming the focal point of the service.
"It's a hell of a building," Brooks said.
My gradeschool years were 1971-1979, and I graduated high school in 1983. Both schools were Catholic.
As a family, we'd attend Palm Sunday, Holy Thursday Mass, Good Friday services (stations, veneration of the Cross, reception of reserved Holy Communion), and attend Easter morning Mass. For many of those years, I was an altar boy, so it was very likely I served at one or more of those Masses/services each year. I distinctly recall one Holy Thursday Mass, that the altar boys were among those whose feet were washed by the bishop (my childhood parish was the diocesan cathedral in Rochester NY -Sacred Heart cathedral). In 7th and 8th grade, I was in the boys choir, and we sang at the Easter Vigil those years.
Nowadays, I attend Good Friday services during Holy Week, and attend morning Mass on Easter Sunday. I haven't attended Holy Thursday in well over a couple decades.